Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial
“Criminal case against Mulka and others”, 4 Ks 2/63
District Court of Frankfurt am Main
Interrogation of the witness Rudolf Vrba

Presiding Judge: You were arrested at the time.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I was taken to the Majdanek concentration camp under the pretext of resettlement.

Presiding Judge:
From where, Mr. Vrba?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
From Slovakia.

Presiding Judge:
And from which city?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
That was from the town of Trnava.

Presiding Judge:
What was the name?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Tyrnau. — Trnava.

Presiding Judge:
Tyrnau, yes. And this happened for what reasons?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Since I was born in a Jewish family, I was arrested one day and taken to Majdanek.

Presiding Judge:
So for racial reasons?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, indeed.

Presiding Judge:
And you then came from Majdanek to Auschwitz?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I was in Majdanek for two weeks, and then, for reasons I don’t quite understand, I was relocated and sent to Auschwitz.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
On June 30, 1942.

Presiding Judge:
June 30th of which year?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
1942

Presiding Judge:
On June 30, 1942. And how long did you stay there?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I was in Auschwitz until April 7, 1944.

Presiding Judge:
April 7, 1944. And then went where?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I escaped from Auschwitz on April 7th.

Presiding Judge:
Did you escape?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Presiding Judge:
Aha. [Pause] And then you remained free?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
And I returned to my homeland, to Slovakia.

Presiding Judge:
Yes, but you weren’t arrested again?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No.

Presiding Judge:
No.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I fought back.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. Mr Vrba, do you agree that we can record your testimony for the purposes of upholding the memory of the court?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Presiding Judge:
Mr. Vrba, you were involved in various activities in the Auschwitz camp.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Presiding Judge:
Would you like to tell us what individual jobs you did there?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
For the first six weeks I worked in a main SS economic camp.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Then I was assigned to a group that worked for IG Farben at the Buna works.

Presiding Judge:
How long?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I was there for about four weeks.

Presiding Judge:
Four?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
About four weeks.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Maybe six weeks.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
After that, I was assigned to a special commando, which had the euphemistic title cleaning-up command and which dealt with the transport of Jewish families who came to Auschwitz – to assist there in the unloading of the trains.

Presiding Judge:
And roughly how long were you there?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
And to deal with the loot. Yes, I was there from about Autumn 42 to June 43.

Presiding Judge:
Until June 43. And then what happened to you?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
In June 43 I became a Clerk, as I spoke several languages. And I was a Clerk in Birkenau. In 43 I was transferred from Auschwitz to Birkenau, in January.

Presiding Judge:
In January? You said you had been a Block Clerk since June ’43.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, that means this clean-up squad was in Auschwitz until January 43. Then it was the whole command transferred to Birkenau. And I stayed in that command until June 43.

Presiding Judge:
June, yes

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Then, in June ’43, I became a Clerk there, in Birkenau, and stayed a Clerk until April ’44, that means until the time of my escape from the concentration camp.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. And in which Block were you Block Clerk?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I was a Block Clerk in the quarantine camp, and on the day I escaped it was Block 14.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. So quarantine camp, that was camp A?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
That was Camp IIa.

Presiding Judge:
IIa. BIIa. And there you were in the Block?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
14

Presiding Judge:
14. And what prisoner number did you have there? [pause] What prisoner number? You have a number?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. My number is 44,070.

Presiding Judge:
44,070. And did you live in Auschwitz and Birkenau under your real name Vrba, didn’t you did you have..

Witness Rudolf Vrba [interrupts]:
No.

Presiding Judge:
What was your name there?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I lived in Auschwitz and Birkenau under the name of Walter Rosenberg.

Presiding Judge:
Walter Rosenberg. And what was the reason you took that name?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
When I escaped from Auschwitz, the so-called Political Department of Auschwitz had an arrest warrant issued against me and requested all criminal authorities in Germany and in the occupied territories, the Gestapo offices and the security services to look for me. The copy of this investigator’s report is in my hands, I got it from the Auschwitz Museum¹.
And in the year 44, that is immediately after my escape from Auschwitz and this manhunt for me, I had the name changed to Rudolf Vrba.

I later joined the Czechoslovakian military under that name and was in the military until the end of the war. My documents were of course burned while still in Majdanek. And I have had no other documents than the papers that I received as a soldier at the end of the war and later I legalized the name. Because after what I had seen in Auschwitz, I didn’t want to have a German-sounding name.
[¹ Cf. the telegram from the Litzmannstadt State Police Office of April 7, 1944, in: Świebocki (ed.), London was informed, p. 36]

Presiding Judge:
So you were born as Walter Rosenberg.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
That’s right.

Presiding Judge:
And then you later legalized the name Vrba.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
That’s right.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. Witness, we want to take a break now.

– Break –

Presiding Judge:
You finally told us that you came to Auschwitz. And may I ask you again the exact date from when to when?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I was sent to the Majdanek concentration camp on June 14, 1942. And from there I was transported away again in a cattle truck on June 28, that is, in the same month.

Presiding Judge:
To where?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
The train arrived at Auschwitz concentration camp on June 30th.

Presiding Judge:
Aha. So you were in Majdanek for 14 days, and then on 30.6. arrived at Auschwitz.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Presiding Judge:
On 6/30/42.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
42

Presiding Judge:
Yes. Well, Mr. Vrba, which camps did you then go to, or which Blocks?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I was in the Auschwitz camp, that is, in the central camp, until January 15, 1943. But here I am not quite sure of the date. It must have been in January 43. I was in different Blocks. Because right from the start I was moved from one so-called work detail to another until I then finally incorporated into the so-called clean-up squad.

Presiding Judge [interrupts]:
Yes, you said that. Yes and

Witness Rudolf Vrba [interrupts]:
And I remember that, the Block number was 4.

Presiding Judge:
So you were in all the camps in Auschwitz from June 30, 2042 to April 7, 1944, up to your escape.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Presiding Judge:
Of that, you spent about six weeks at the main SS warehouse, then four weeks in Buna, four to six weeks. In September you came to the clean-up squad and stayed there until January 1943 in Auschwitz, and from January to June you were in Birkenau?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
From January to June I was in the clean-up squad in Birkenau.

Presiding Judge:
Then came in June 1943 as Block Clerks to camp BIIa, Block 14.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. And now we have your job first in the main warehouse, then in Buna. And this Cleanup Squad, that might be one of the most revealing things for us, because there you got around quite a bit.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Presiding Judge:
Where were you housed at that time?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
During the time I was working in the clean-up squad, I was accommodated in Block 4 in the Auschwitz central warehouse.

Presiding Judge:
In the main camp, Block 4.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
In the main camp, Block 4, in the basement.

Presiding Judge:
In the basement. Who was your Block elder back then?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
The Block Senior was a Polish prisoner, his name was Polsakiewicz. Polsakiewicz.

Presiding Judge:
Polsakiewicz. And do you remember the name of your Block Leader?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No, I can’t remember the name of the Block Leader. I only remember the name of the Block Recorder. That was Ernst Burger.

Presiding Judge:
[pause] Do you know what happened to Burger?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Burger – as long as I was in the camp, he was still alive. After the war I found out that he was hanged by the SS on suspicion of trying to escape.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. Well, Herr Vrba, what was your job with the clean-up squad?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, the clean-up squad was a pretty complicated process, and I’d probably need to take three or four take minutes to describe it.

Presiding Judge:
Yes, well, in broad terms maybe once, yes?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. Basically, the clean-up squad worked in two shifts. There was a Day shift and a night shift.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
The night shift was in direct contact with so-called arrivals, which means unloading the Transports that rolled constantly into Auschwitz. And the day shift dealt with the effects of the— obetí (Slovak for victims).

Interpreter Benesch:
The victims.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
The victims.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Basically, our work consisted of: At night, when it was announced that a transport had arrived in Auschwitz, a Block Leader, an SS man, came into the Block and woke us up. We got up immediately and were taken to the so-called ramp. The ramp was a wooden building, a wooden frame about 500 meters long – but it could also have been longer – which was between Auschwitz and Birkenau.

Presiding Judge:
Aha. So that was the so-called old ramp.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
We always marched out with a group of SS men. And there were usually already up to around 100 SS men without rank. They’ve put a chain of guards around the ramp. As the post chain was pulled, we marched into the post chain (into an area surrounded by armed guards), because this ramp was there outside the camp area, outside of Auschwitz and outside of Birkenau.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
We marched into the line of posts (guards) and waited for the train. The train was pushed in into this chain, and after the post chain was checked and everything worked. Then came the Commission of SS officers and a group of SS non-commissioned officers, that was mostly Rottenfuhrer, Scharfuhrer and Unterscharfuhrer and such. And a group of officers, – they had gold on their shoulders. We stood at the bottom of the ramp and the so-called officers stood at the top of the ramp.

The SS-Unterscharführer then went to the train and opened the wagons and had the occupants of the wagons, which are mostly women, children, men and all sorts, well made up of families ordered to leave the wagons. The numbers of people changed. The smaller transports had perhaps 700 to 800 people, the larger transports could carry up to 3,000 people included. People were herded out of the wagons, sometimes with good ones, sometimes with good ones in bad words, from the SS. And we stood in a corner of the sentry line. And under the penalty of death, we were forbidden to converse with anyone from the arrivals.

The arrivals were then lined up in front of the ramp, and a strict no-talk order was imposed on them. Nobody was allowed to speak. Whoever had spoken – that was what the Unterscharfuhrer were there for -Carrying walking sticks and hitting them ruthlessly at any attempt to make contact between them. The whole line of people – usually, as I say, it was a larger crowd of people, up to 3,000 people – was then brought before the commission that was on the other end of the Ramp, which consisted of the SS officers. And they usually, not always, have about 100 to 150 – sometimes 200, let’s say 15 to 20 percent, ten percent, it varied a lot – people picked out who had to march off to the camp. The rest of the people were then prepared for trucks loaded and on the other side, that is, to Birkenau, and sent directly into the gas chambers.

That means when the transport arrives – that was a routine – it’s an instantaneous one- a Red Cross car arrived when people got out. What the Red Cross wagon contained I knew that. Because during the day it was loaded with Zyklon gas and it drove past the people.

That had a calming effect on people. Because they had said: The Red Cross is there, so nothing can happen, even bad. And the Red Cross car drove past and straight to the gas chamber, which was a kilometre away. Well, the people were sorted out, transferred to the cars, and then came the second side of the operation. There were always a number of people in the trains that couldn’t move, to get out of the wagons. So first the Unterscharführer tried it there on a harder one way. And those who couldn’t be gotten out with a stick, that means: the dead, those terminally ill who no longer reacted to being hit with a stick, and cripples, crippled people, who couldn’t move, then were herded into the wagons by the SS and these people had to be forced out of the wagons.

This usually happened when being transported to the gas chambers. And then, when the ramp was free, so to speak, we had to deal with the people who were left in the wagons. People had to be dragged, which meant the work was for the SS quite uncomfortable. There were sometimes up to ten percent dead in some wagons. They had been there for several days, or seriously ill. The hygienic conditions in the wagons were sometimes very difficult, which didn’t sit well with the SS people under their noses. And the work was carried out very quickly with blows of the stick.

This means that a prisoner could only drag a sick person. We often had to drag the sick over a distance of up to 500 meters, by their hands or on blankets or how it just went, up to the trucks. And then, driven with with blows of the stick, we had carried the sick onto the truck, and that is together with the dead, the last truck then drove away.

After the people had left, the work detachment had the second task, namely: We dragged out of the wagons at a run all the effects of those who had been present in the wagon there. When the effects were unloaded, the trucks that took the victims to the

Presiding Judge [interrupts]:
gas chambers.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
…gas chambers returned, empty. And on these empty trucks we have then loaded the

Presiding Judge [interrupts]:
…The luggage.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:

The luggage. When the luggage was loaded, it was driven away to a building complex in Auschwitz I. And that’s what we dealt with in the morning. After that happened, we cleaned the wagons. The wagons had to be absolutely cleaned, in a short time. And the straw or whatever was there, paper or whatever trace of people in the wagons, absolutely had to be removed. And when everything was ready, what was in the wagon is left over, i.e. the straw, was burned on the spot.

Then came the SS inspection. And if a wagon was found by the SS Unterfuhrer there, not to be sparkling clean, where traces of people were left, prisoners who worked there were subject to severe penalties. And only then was the command given to the train. A locomotive came again and took the train away. So, either we stayed there and waited for another transport. And this procedure was repeated, sometimes five or six times in one night, sometimes just once.

There were nights where we saw like 10,000, maybe 7,000, maybe 5,000 people arriving sometimes only 700 or 800 people. If the order hadn’t come, we didn’t wait for the next one, we were led back to our Block, to the camp. Our work then would start the next morning. There was a strong commando that marched out into the personal effects.

Presiding Judge:
Chambers.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Into these effects rooms. The packages were torn open and immediately sorted. Documents, personal Photographs, family albums were burned on the square. Then shirts, jackets and so on, that everything was sorted very carefully according to quality. There were men’s shirts first, second and third class and women’s shirts first, second and third class and so on, furs and all those effects brought by the victims. That was our daily work. That had been sorted into these large effects chambers and complexes. When that was all sorted out, then the trains came. And the goods were loaded onto the trains. I have often seen the trains with an address “Winter Relief”³. Another time they were trains with the inscription “Memmel Paper Factory.” There were trains where we fourth grade from
[³ Support campaign initiated by the NS-Volkswohlfahrt on Hitler’s orders in 1933 of needy citizens. See Encyclopedia of National Socialism, p. 807.]

Presiding Judge [interrupts]:
So rags practical. Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:

So rags. These were sent to a paper mill. And there were various other things there. There was a great deal of money to be found. Between the packages there were currencies, gold, gold watches and so on. They were sorted under special supervision by a certain individual, who was named Scharführer Wiegleb. He collected the valuables and brought them into his office. In the evening they were then delivered somewhere unknown to me. There were at work every night… The Valuables were carried away in a large suitcase. So that was a suitcase that was full of dollars, English pounds, marks, zlotys, gold watches and things like that. In any case, things of great value.

When the work was finished, we marched back to the camp. We were closely examined upon departure from command. Whoever was found to have taken something with him was treated very severely, sometimes punished by death. We were told that you weren’t allowed to steal there. And then we marched into the camp, where a crowd of SS men was waiting for us again sometimes to search for what could have been missed during the first search. And we were led into the Block and slept there until the alarm sounded again, that another transport had arrived. I did this work for about ten months.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. Well, Mr. Vrba, I would be interested in the following. You were like you just described to us, on the ramp.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Presiding Judge:
First of all: This so-called old ramp that existed, if I understand your statement correctly, until June 1943.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Presiding Judge:
And then the old ramp was moved to Birkenau.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No, please.

Presiding Judge:
No?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
It wasn’t quite like that. The old ramp, that is the ramp I remember from the 42nd year, as far as I can remember, existed as long as I worked there. It was made out of wood. And after millions of people or hundreds of thousands of people trampled on it the ramp started to give way. That means there were holes. In cases when we were on the ramp and it moved, sometimes we fell down under the ramp.

Well, one day they started fixing the ramp. Now I don’t remember very well but I think first the old ramp was converted to a concrete ramp. When I had already taken my place in the transformation, I was no longer in command. That means the Wooden ramp was converted to a concrete ramp in 43. It was upgraded to a better one, converted about summer 43, the old ramp, into concrete. At the end of the year 43 that was December or, I think that was January 44, the New Ramp was built between Section I and construction phase II in Birkenau.

Presiding Judge:
In Birkenau.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I could follow that well from my Block. It was in section IIa, Block 14. So that was built in front of my eyes, so to speak. And then I knew that this New Ramp, I heard that it was being prepared for the Hungarian transports. Because it was about a murder of a million people in no time. So apparently they decided to build a ramp right next to the to build the crematorium, i.e. between construction phase I and construction phase II. I never saw this ramp finished. Because before the Hungarian transports had arrived, I escaped from Auschwitz. And of course the first thing I did was: I described that this ramp was built for the Hungarian citizens of Jewish descent, and the warning about it. I reported what was going on. So I never saw the second ramp finished. I just have seen, it was built.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. Now, Witness, something else. You told us earlier that the trucks with the people who were destined to die were driven away to the gas chambers in Birkenau.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Presiding Judge:
Which gas chambers were those back then?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I had not yet seen the gas chambers at that time. I only knew from my friends that worked at the gas chambers. It was the gas chambers behind Birkenau in Brzezinka (the village next to Birkenau) at that time.

– break-

Presiding Judge:
January 43?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
That must have been after January 43.

Presiding Judge:
After January 43.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. That could have been February, that could have been March. I remember it was still very cold.

Presiding Judge:
By then the first crematorium with the first gas chamber was ready in Birkenau.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Presiding Judge:
Of these big ones that were built later. You can see them at the top of the map brown Blocks. Those are the crematoria.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
May I show you?

Presiding Judge:
Please, yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
[Pause] This is Stage II. This is Stage I, yes. So the first crematorium I really saw at work and bringing the victims into the crematorium, that was in the construction phase Ib So that was the old men’s camp in Birkenau. And this is where the crematorium stood. I could watch the matter very closely. Because this Block here, that was Block number 27. And behind this Block was the morgue, which is not shown here. That was the morgue for the prisoners who died in camp.

When I came back from the clean-up squad at night, that meant I came back in the morning, I didn’t go to my Block, I went to the morgue. For the mortuary clerk was Wetzler, with whom I escaped from the camp. And I mostly hung out with him in my free time because we were close friends. Well, from that little chamber behind Block 27. I was able to observe very well what was happening there in the crematorium. Because at the time when the crematorium was finished, there were no trees like the ones shown here. There was nothing. Here was just the electric fence. Of course, the prisoners were not allowed to stay there. The gassing was usually done at night or early in the morning before roll call.

But since I was from “Canada,” i.e. from the clean-up squad, I came back and instead of going to my Block directly I went to the mortuary, where I knew the people well and the door was always open. I was able to stop and watch the process there. And as I’ve often seen when I get off the ramp and came back, the same people who used to wear very distinctive suits. We say, if they were Dutch, they looked completely different from a distance than those from Poles who came, or those who came from Yugoslavia. So there I could see people marching in here in this building. And that’s when I saw it for the first time that on a bunker… It was like a concrete square. There’s suddenly… I’ve just sat down in the morgue and drinking coffee. And then I see a man in an SS uniform crawl up onto this bunker, with a gas mask, and he has a big can in his hand and opens the can and pours something into the bunker through an opening on the…

Presiding Judge:
Cinder Block

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
On the cinder block, yes. He opened something and he poured that in. And with me there was a morgue Kapo, there used to be a Czech doctor by the name of Lubomír Baštář. And I asked him: ‘Lubomír, see what he is doing. What is he doing there?” And then he, Baštář, explained to me: ‘That’s the transport you loaded up last night, and now he’s dumping gas. But say nothing, because it will cost us our lives.’ And since then I saw this several times or quite often have watched. Because my way back was always to this morgue, which is not shown here.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Finally I escaped from the camp with Wetzler who worked in the morgue.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Presiding Judge:
Since you’re still up there, would you please show us what kind of buildings are up there after the first two crematoria?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
So here?

Presiding Judge:
I, then comes II.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Presiding Judge:
And further to the right.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Presiding Judge:
Even further to the right.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. I can’t remember exactly, please. It is possible that it is the “sauna” building. Because between the crematoria, when the crematoria were already completely finished, when there all four crematoria were there, between the crematoria, for example, but that could also be here, there was probably the “sauna”. I’ve been there quite often. The new arrivals that were not taken to the crematoria were brought in here.

I heard from the prisoners who worked there that something technical was being built there, its determination was not entirely clear to me. So that could be something. It was said there is something with it-Fermentation of plants or something, but I don’t know.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. And then up there on the right, all those Barracks, do you know what that was?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
These Barracks?

Presiding Judge:
That there, yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
These Barracks here. Please wait a moment. That was construction phase III (“Mexico”). At the time when I fled the camp there were, as far as I can remember, no Barracks. And I escaped in April.

Presiding Judge [interrupts]:
Yes, that’s not part III either. You’re wrong. The construction section is over there.

Witness Rudolf Vrba [interrupts]:
No, the construction phase is here. Yes.

Presiding Judge:
That’s right, yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I only used it after the orientation. As far as I can remember, at the time of my escape, I cannot remember these Barracks.

Presiding Judge:
Aha. In any case, you never worked there.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
In there?

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
In these Barracks?

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No.

Presiding Judge:
Because after that it was the “Kanada” camp. But then you were no longer there.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No, I escaped on April 7th. And on April 7, that wasn’t there yet.⁴
[⁴ Apparently there was a misunderstanding between the presiding judge and the witness Vrba. The Section BIIf “Kanada” was put into operation in December 1943. See Czech, Calendar, p.678]

Presiding Judge:
Thank you, then please take a seat again. Well, Mr. Witness, I would have then another question. You have described to us that at first SS people without rank arrived, who took care of the barrier, namely to the ramp.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Presiding Judge:
Then the squad leaders and sub-leaders came along and then finally the leaders. Have You from this SS personnel, who appeared on the ramp, any known by name or by person?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. Personally I have known many. By name, no. For they came at night, you see, and they weren’t always the same. But it was a row of faces that I saw. There was a great variety between these – there were certain faces that were there very often, and certain faces that were there less often. Sometimes there were five transports that arrived in one cold night. They weren’t there. They were replaced by someone else’s Command, that means from another group, and as far as I could observe, with great desire (for plunder).

Because there was something to “organize,” there was always something to steal. There were women’s watches and bottles of slivovitz and whatever you could take from there. And they got along very well, their chat was friendly. I was only able to see them then, the SS officers, where I saw the dead or had to drag those arrivals that couldn’t move into the truck.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
And so I had to stand close to them. So it was only on this occasion that I got to see them up close. Normally, if I wasn’t assigned to this job, I couldn’t see the officers from up close. Because they wouldn’t go into the wagons.

The prisoners, the arrivals, where cars unloaded and marched past the group of officers standing at the other end. So I could only see the group at the end of the work if I had been given the task of dragging the dead or the dying to the last car. Of course that was quite often, because I was one of the youngest in command. And it’s true that the unpleasant work is always given to the youngest. And that’s how I’ve seen them many times.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. So you can’t give us any names of the people, especially the people who carried out selections, which differentiated between those who came into the camp and those who should die?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I might recognize someone, but it would be difficult for me to say a name if you ask me so directly.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:

Yes, I clearly remember the man named Mengele. He was there most often. I already remember the, yes, Fries by the name, which I have seen very often. So I knew him well. I had to march past twice a day. I couldn’t miss it.

I already remember the non-commissioned officers by name. To the non-commissioned officers Otto Graf and König and Wiegleb, who frequented there. But then again I only remember the names because I was very often with them during the day.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Of the rest, I noted many faces and knew them by sight. But I didn’t know their names. And if you allow me, yes, they never introduced themselves.

Presiding Judge:
Well, that’s clear. Well, Mr Witness, onward. So you said you were with this one until June ’43 Command. And where were you housed there? Finally in Birkenau?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
In the end I was housed in Birkenau in one of the wooden Blocks that were in the Birkenau camp [Ib]. May I please show this on the [map]?

Presiding Judge:
Yes please

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Thanks. So in Birkenau, in the old camp, here these Blocks were bricked while these Blocks were wooden. “Kanada” was housed in this area of these four Blocks. I can’t now exactly say in which. But my Block was number 16.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
And that should be around here.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I was accommodated here until June 43.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
And then this camp was turned into a women’s camp. I was temporarily in Camp d as Assistant clerk, maybe for two or three weeks, in Camp IId. From Camp IId I am a clerk in Quarantine camp brought in, to camp [IIa]. And here was Block 14. Sorry.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
So that I could clearly see from here, from this Block, that the ramp is being moved here. There I saw the building.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
And it was from this Block that I escaped from the camp.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. So that was in Block 14, in quarantine camp a. And before that you were in Ib, 16, and temporarily once again in the d camp.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
IId, Block 9.

Presiding Judge:
Yes, IId, Block 9.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
The clerk named Wetzler was there

Presiding Judge:
Yes. Mr. Vrba, may I ask you the following: who was your Block leader, like you in Ib, 16, were as you were in IIa, 14, and as you were in IId, 9? Do you remember that?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, the names are very difficult for me to remember now.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
To the Block Leaders or the Block Elders?

Presiding Judge:
Block Leader.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
The SS men. No, on camp b, on the first section, i.e. on the old camp on Block 16. I can’t remember.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
When I was in Block 9, I can’t remember for sure. I have the name Baretzki often heard back then. He used to come in often, but I can’t remember exactly.

Presiding Judge:
That was IId, 9.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
IId, 9.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Then I was in the quarantine camp. And since I was now a clerk in the quarantine camp and I was more often in contact with these individuals, I can remember the names better. There it was SS Sergeant Kurpanik, SS Sergeant Buntrock, [pause] SS Sergeant Perschel. Yes, that’s all I can remember of names at this moment.

Presiding Judge:
Well, you gave us the name Baretzki and said that it was mentioned more often. Did you see him yourself?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I can’t remember that now.

Presiding Judge:
You can’t remember.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No.

Presiding Judge:
So you can’t

Witness Rudolf Vrba [interrupts]:
The name was familiar to me as long as I was in the camp.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Especially in the d camp, and also when I was in the quarantine camp. I’ve often walked that path from the quarantine camp to d camp where I had my friends. Wetzler, with whom I fled, was yes still in d camp.

Presiding Judge:
In b or d?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
d

Presiding Judge:
Dora?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Dora, yes.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
That means that on the day of our escape I was the Clerk in the a camp and he in the d camp. And there I had often, in preparing to flee, have to make the way from a to d. And then I got certain Warnings given: “Be careful, you shouldn’t hit Baretzki, he’s dangerous.” Back then, of course I knew him, but I can’t remember the face now, in any way.

Presiding Judge:
And how did you know who Baretzki was?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, he was a Block Leader, I know that.

Presiding Judge:
That was a Block Leader.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Presiding Judge:
Where was he shown to you as a Block Leader?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
He wasn’t shown to me. It was assumed that I knew him. At that time.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
And

Presiding Judge [interrupts]:
But it’s no use if I tell you: “Be careful of Baretzki,” and you don’t even know what he looks like.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I knew then.

Presiding Judge:
You knew then.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. Back then I at least knew most of the SS men by their faces and they Unterscharführer and such also by name. They were often in the camp. The senior officers who were rarely in the camp, I knew very few by name.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. Now tell me, did you also see this Baretzki on the ramp?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I don’t personally remember that Baretzki on the ramp.

Presiding Judge:
He was in Birkenau, and do you know if he had anything to do with the liquidation of the Czech family camp?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
[pause] Thank you. I was present at the liquidation of the Czech family camp. But about them to tell the truth, the problems during the liquidation were such that I remembered the name of the SS men who took part were not very dedicated. I just want to say that that there was a state of alarm in the SS in Birkenau when the Czech camp was liquidated yes, the entire SS group was brought in by the experienced Block Leaders. And I could guess that the experienced Block Leaders from the d-camp were there. Because the experienced Block lLeaders from the a-camp, that was Kurpanik at that time, and the multicolored shirt, that was from the d-camp. I can definitely relate to those two. I remember they were there. It is more than likely that Baretzki [was] there.
But I can’t confirm that.

Presiding Judge:
Yes I understand. Well, Mr. Witness, you then make statements about the accused Boger, Klehr, and Bednarek. What do you know about Boger?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
About whom?

Presiding Judge:
Boger.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:

Yes. Boger was a well-known figure in the camp. We all knew him. I even have known that from Auschwitz. You could see him every day. He worked, if you can call it that, at Block 11 and was hanging around the camp on his bicycle during free time. So him, I knew quite well. What I knew about it, about Boger. Boger worked in Block 11. We knew that those who went into in Block 11, very seldom came out. I also knew about the prisoners who did get out and what Boger had done to them.

So the name Boger in the concentration camp Auschwitz – there were already different individuals, but this was a very special character that stands out because of his brutality. Of course I had the man in view, also on the occasion of the preparation for escape. I had been preparing to escape for a long time and I often had to change the plans. And he was actually the enemy who was there to prevent the escapes. And the danger was, as we knew that often people on the spur of the moment went from the camp to Block 11, were brought in and tortured there to say if they know anything about an escape.

And if there were 25 who didn’t know anything, it didn’t matter. The hearse drove away from Block 11 every evening, which was rarely empty. And those who survived, I knew about them, I had to be careful there and tell as few people as possible about the preparations for the escape. For there was always a possibility that one might fall into his hands by accident. And what happened next was impossible to know. Because the tortures that were used were like that, clever and even strong men sometimes collapsed, or very often collapsed and gave him certain information, sometimes completely incorrect information given just to stop the torment. So that was Boger’s reputation.

Presiding Judge:
Didn’t you meet him yourself?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Thank God no.

Presiding Judge:
And did you know the accused Klehr?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Very good on the name.

Presiding Judge:
By name?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Presiding Judge:
But not personally?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No

Presiding Judge:
And have you heard from him?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, Klehr, he was a medical corporal. He worked in the medical department. And I knew he did the “injections.” That means I have a lot of friends like that who died because they went into the infirmary in the morning and looked quite well, so they were quite healthy, and in the evening I knew that they had gone to the morgue.

And I knew that injections were given there in the infirmary were from Klehr. So Klehr was in the camp, as was Boger, one of those figures like here, say, a minister. Everyone knows who Erhard is or something. Forgive me, I did not know him, but I knew who he was. That was something we all knew.

Presiding Judge:
Well, did you also know the accused Bednarek?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Bednarek, yes, I knew him.

Presiding Judge:
Personally?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I must have come into contact with him once or twice, but contact was very minimal. I knew he was Block Senior in the punishment command.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. And the punishment command was in the camp?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
As far as I remember, the punishment command was in the old camp, in camp Ib⁵, i.e. in the old men’s camp, or in Block 1 or in Block 2.
[⁵ BIb.]

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
The “Sonderkommando” and the punishment command were there, they had these two Blocks. In the new camp, that is, in section IId⁶, the punishment command was in Block 13, if I remember correctly.
[⁶ BIId]

Presiding Judge:
Yes. And did you experience him there, when you were in camp d yourself, or when you were in a and there too when visitors came to Wetzler?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No, I can’t remember where I came into contact with him. He had the reputation of a man better avoided, and I did.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. And why did you have every reason to avoid him?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, a Block Elder from the punishment command was of course a person who was very close to the SS, they worked together, and that in itself naturally disqualified him in my eyes. But I have heard that things like that happen there, in the punishment command, his company was not desirable.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. And what did you hear about such things?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, in general the survival time in the punishment command was very short. In the years 42 and 43 going to the punishment command was a death sentence. If I may say, not a pleasant death or short death. And these were things that were well known in the camp.

Presiding Judge:
So you know that from hearsay?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No, of course I know part of the natural saying. Because when I was in the morgue, the punishment command marched out every morning in ’43. The punishment command was marched out in the morning with a cart. They pushed the cart and I have seen them pushing the cart. And there was no one in it when they went to work. That was a big trolley. But in the evening, when they came back from the work, the wagon was full of corpses. And the bodies got sent behind the Block 27 to the morgue. And there Wetzler was the Morgue Clerk.

And Wetzler had often said to me: “Today is the day the punishment command comes back with a wagon full of corpses,” or: “Today was a good one. Hello, they just dragged the bodies here without the car.” So I knew what was going on in the punishment command. And since I spent my free time in the morgue with Wetzler, I…often saw the bodies, how they looked when they arrived. And it was not a pleasant sight.

Presiding Judge:
Well, Mr. Vrba, how was it with the Bednarek? Are you with me? Had you noticed or seen him mistreating people or beating them to death?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I did not see Bednarek doing this activity.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Because mostly this activity was done in Block 1 or 2. And these were from the camp with one wall separately. And what goes on behind this wall I could only know from the corpses
who came out from behind the wall.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Well, I’ve seen the corpses quite often.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
So that’s all I know about it.

Presiding Judge:
Yes, it is now important for us to know who killed these people, whether that in particular was also Bednarek. But you haven’t seen that with your own eyes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I haven’t seen that with my own eyes. All I know is that there are functionaries in the Block, that is, the Block Elders had to take part in it if he wanted to maintain his career, if I put it that way if I may. But I didn’t see it.

Presiding Judge:
Any questions?

Judge Perseke:
He did make a report.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. Mr. Vrba, after your flight to Czechoslovakia you first went to a monastery there and gave a report to the Papal Nuncio. [In fact, Vrba & Mordowicz ended up speaking to a representative of the Papal Nuncio.]

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed

Presiding Judge:
Do you still have a copy of this report available?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
The transcript of that report is here. [pause] I only have the transcript in an English, translation. That was a complete report of everything I saw in Auschwitz. And after my escape from Auschwitz, I wanted to warn the world, where possible, of what was going on. So in the first place, I had it in mind to prevent the voluntary deportation of Hungarians of Jewish descent, who had no idea that the crematoria had already been prepared for them. To make it clear of what was immanent, it was of course necessary to compile complete statistics on Auschwitz. And then we then set it up together with Wetzler. So the statistics were made like this. The things were pretty incredible at the time, and we were segregated and subjected to interrogation…

Presiding Judge:
Subjected?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Subjected where we said the same story, independently. These facts were then summarized at the end of the protocol. The log is here and consists of the statistics of the victims in Auschwitz, which according to our calculations in April 1944 amounted to 1,750,000 people. I have this one Report.⁷ I just got a copy of it from the White House library a year ago. The Copy is here in my hands, and I can see that it is the original text, in English translation. Along with a letter also written by the American institutions. and where it is stated that the information contained in this report is credible, in spite of all this unbelievable stuff it contained at the time. I have the report along with Wetzler was forwarded to the papal nuncio, and it was then sent to the western governments.
[⁷ “German extermination camps – Auschwitz and Birkenau”, Executive Office of the President War Refugee Board, Washington, D.C., November 1944. See e.g. B. David S. Wyman (Ed.): America and the Holocaust, Vol. 12, New York, London 1990, pp. 1-44 as well as the victim statistics in: The trial against the Major war criminals before the International Court of Justice, Nuremberg November 14-1. October 1946, Vol. 37, Nuremberg 1949, p. 4337 “German extermination camps – Auschwitz and Birkenau”, Executive Office of the President War Refugee Board, Washington, D.C., November 1944. See e.g. B. David S. Wyman (Ed.): America and the Holocaust, Vol. 12, New York, London 1990, pp. 1-44 as well as the victim statistics in: The trial against the Major war criminals before the International Court of Justice, Nuremberg November 14-1. October 1946, Vol. 37, Nuremberg 1949, p. 433]

Presiding Judge:
And how were you able to produce these statistics?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. I grappled with the idea of escape from the first moment, and especially when I saw what happened on the ramp. Well, I had to rely on my memory, of course. But I think I have a good memory. And despite how incredible it seems to memorize a series of numbers, I used mnemonics to help me. Let’s say I can’t say 300 streets in today’s Frankfurt. But anyone who lives in Frankfurt and starts thinking about how one street leads into the other can count 300 streets.

For me, every transport was not the numbers, but the people who were inside. Of each Transport there were one, two, five or ten survivors, or almost every transport. I made friends almost in every transport. I was able to remember the transport after the people who came in this or that transport. And just like me today, without a book to look at, I can remember my friends’ phone numbers, so I was able to look them up at the time. And note transports. Because every transport – no matter how gray it may look, 300 or 250 To have seen transports – something happened with every transport. “That’s when he looked a certain way.” And I could remember that and I worked on it, I did control the matter. I’ve spoken to other people. I spoke to people from the “Sonderkommando” and with people from the registration and have constantly corrected the numbers to get the right number.

And according to my calculations in April 1944 it was one and three quarter million people killed, including women and children, who at that time accounted for at least 60 to 70 percent of the people, who became victims.

Presiding Judge:
By April how many were there?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
1,750,000.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Until April 44.

Presiding Judge:
44. [pause] I have no more questions for the witness. Does the court have any questions? Please.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Mr. Vrba.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, please.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
You said you were able to observe the building of the new ramp in Birkenau from your Block in Camp BIIa.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Please?

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
They were able to build the new ramp in Birkenau in the camp between sections BI and BII, seen from your Block when you were in camp BIIa.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Now you escaped on April 7, 1944.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Up to that point, had you ever seen a train drive into this ramp or
not yet?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No. Up to the day of my escape no train came in on this ramp.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Can you say for sure?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
That was one. Then, when you fled with Wetzler: did you meet at Wetzler’s? Did Wetzler came to you in section a, and how did that come about? If you could tell us that again?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, may I put that on the folder…

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Yes please

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. As you know, that was the Small Post Chain that you see here. (line of watchtowers inside the camp)

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Yes where the towers are.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. And here was the Great Post Chain. (line of watch towers around the whole camp)

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
By night the Great Post Chain was…

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Moved in.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Drafted in, and only the small chain of guards stood. The principle of flight was by day to remain outside the small post chain.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
And to hide.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
And to hide. Then of course I would be absent at roll call. But if I missed the roll call, then the alarm would be given. That was with the siren.

Supplementary Judge Hummerich [interrupts]:
Then the Great Post Chain was not drafted.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Then the Great Post Chain was not called in for three nights. Then the Great Post Chain and the Small Chain of Posts stood for three nights and three days. If I was not there at evening roll call or was in my Block, that meant the camp leadership, or the camp commander knew I couldn’t be anywhere but between the small and the large post chain. And now the order has been given that [unintelligible]

Interpreter Benes [interrupts]:
Space.

Presiding Judge:
the space in between.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:

To examine the space between the Small and Large Post Chains for three days. In addition they had the dog unit and so on. Well, the plan was to get outside the Small Post Chain
to hide. I could march out there from camp a, by day, with my files, and say I have to go to camp d to hand in the files there. Wetzler did the same. He was from camp d. He marched out and said he was going to camp a to pick up some papers. Instead of this we met here in construction phase III. In section III, just 50 or 100 meters from opposite the Block leader’s room, the bunker was built.

We slipped into the bunker on April 7th and waited until the evening of April 11th. That was Friday at two o’clock when we got into the bunker and we thought that the bunker was watertight, so to speak. There, measures were taken that they cannot find us with the dogs. So we believed in this bunker. And, in fact, four prisoners had used this bunker before us. But they were caught. In spite of the fact that they were tortured in the political department, especially by Boger and those – I spoke to these people and they assured me they did not reveal the secret of the bunker, they did not tell. So I believed them and it turned out that they didn’t betray us.

So we went into the bunker and then waited for the alarm. The alarm went off when the clock struck six o’clock, and the search had lasted Friday night, Saturday, Sunday night and Sunday. On Monday the searching had been reduced, and on Monday at six o’clock in the evening I did I heard the cry: “Remove the outer guard chain!” And then I knew I was free.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Please stay right there. Can you show me Block 7 in camp BIb?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Block 7 in BIb. Here was the entrance, so it should be here or here. That was Block 7, that was Block 8

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Do you know who was housed in Block 7 at the time?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Here in Block 7 was an infirmary. That was called the infirmary. There were the prisoners, they that didn’t do the job well enough, they were declared sick. They were then taken to Block 7, and what happened there, I knew very often. Because Wetzler was a clerk in the morgue, but he lived in Block 7. He was housed in Block 7. And I was in Block 7 quite often, and I saw these so-called sick people.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Yes, that’s what I wanted to know from you. So Wetzler lived in Block 7?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Wetzler lived in Block 7.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
That’s what he told us too.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes that is true.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
But the morgue, that was next to Block 27?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
That’s right.

Additional Judge Lobsterich:
Yes. Thank you very much.

Presiding Judge:
Mr. Prosecutor.

Prosecutor Vogel:
We spoke earlier about the selections on the ramp. Can you tell something about it? It was mentioned that people had to get out of the wagons and come onto the ramp. Was a division then immediately made into men, women and children?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed. If..

Prosecutor Vogel [interrupts]:
Who made this classification?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
It was the SS-Unterscharführer who walked with walking sticks between the men and tried to appease them. They wanted people in ignorance about it until the last moment. To keep their fate secret, because it was easier if the arrivals went to die willingly. The Unterscharführer ran around and saying: “The men should stand aside, they will to go to work. And the women, they will work in the kitchens. And the mothers with the children should also go to another place.” So they sorted it out straight away, even the Unterscharführer, before it came to the officers’ commission.

Prosecutor Vogel:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
They would already set them up like this: in men, in women and in families. There were old men, and every woman who had a child, whatever she looked like, if there was a child, they were automatically among those who would go into the gas chamber. They were lined up. Because the SS already knew that there would be a difficulty when you wanted to separate a child from a woman, from a mother, a small child. And so they were immediately sorted out there, and only then did they march past this commission of officers who were there standing up on the ramp.

Prosecutor Vogel:
So this first division into men, women and children was made by the group that You referred to earlier as a group of SS Unterfuhrers?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
That’s right.

Prosecutor Vogel:
That’s right. And did this division, the separation of families, lead to incidents or to riots? And how did that…

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, there were small incidents. Namely this whole ramp, that was the heart of it, so to speak Auschwitz. If that didn’t work there, nothing worked at all. You had to get people into the gas chambers voluntarily and in ignorance, with cunning. So that’s why the SS men who were there behaved differently. They used to open the wagons and say, ‘Gentlemen and ladies, please step off” or something.

Prosecutor Vogel:
So very polite.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Very polite, yes. The moment they were outside they said: “It is forbidden to speak. No speaking, there must be order here.” They were afraid that some of the men could see that something was wrong. And every revolt, of course, every resistance, there has to be one who understands. And for understanding, you have to speak. And there was a strict no-speak policy. For us prisoners who tried to speak to the arrivals to give a warning, that was it- you would be ruthlessly punished with death. And I’ve seen that many times. Second: If the people spoke together, there were the SS men with the walking sticks – they were actually walking sticks, not a stick. Without the sticks, they would see what was going on too quickly.

Prosecutor Vogel:
Stand out too much.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, that is striking. They went there with walking sticks and there were scenes. There was one woman who said: “I’m not separating from my husband.” The other said: “I won’t leave my mother” or something. And at that moment the sticks were used immediately. And ruthlessly. That is, they were hit, on the head, wherever they were hit. Yes, the others saw it and it was a surprise. So that was the first surprise in Auschwitz. And the kids started screaming when that happened. And that had repercussions again on the adults. The adults had been concerned with placating the children. And it all went by quickly. Fast fast fast. Don’t speak because if you speak, you will be clubbed down.

Prosecutor Vogel:
And that was all before the newly arrived prisoners, the people from the transports, before the group of officers came to the actual selection?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Please?

Prosecutor Vogel:
That was all before these people came to the leader group for selection?

Witness Rudolf Vrba [interrupts]:
Selection came, yes, yes. It was all done in such a way that when they came to the selection and until they left the ramp, either to the gas chambers or to the camp, no understanding between the people could arise. Anyone who began to speak was clubbed down. Reckless. Children, non-children, all the same.

Prosecutor Vogel:
Good. A question in a different context: do you still remember whether the barbed wire fence, not only around the camp, but also between the individual camp sections in Birkenau, were electrified by day and electrified at night or only at night?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Between the individual sections in Birkenau, the barbed wire was often not electrified, but sometimes it was. Yes.

Prosecutor Vogel:
Sometimes yes, but it wasn’t a set rule?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. There [was] no fixed rule. It was of course electrified at night.

Prosecutor Vogel:
Always at night, sometimes yes during the day, sometimes no.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
During the day, well I know some people were electrocuted by accident… and at other times there was no electricity. On other occasions I’ve seen accidents, where people were driven onto the wire, and they were electrocuted there. So there was no rule. I don’t know.

Prosecutor Vogel:
You gave a number of casualties earlier, 1,750,000 by the time you escaped. Were the Statistics on which this statement is based come solely from your own observations during the time of your stay? Or does that also include the number of people who, before your own arrival in Auschwitz died there?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Before I came to Auschwitz, the number of victims was quite small, that is, relatively small. Please understand me, I’m not saying that 100,000 victims is a small number. But compared to what happened later, the 100,000 was merely a humble beginning. And I knew about that number from the conversations with the prisoners who had been there. But that number before I arrived would be mine. Statistics do not fundamentally change.

Prosecutor Vogel:
Good. One last question. You said earlier that until the day you escaped from Auschwitz-Birkenau they never drove a transport into the Birkenau camp. I would like to point this out to you again: Some witnesses have already stated here that according to their memory – according to the memory of these Witnesses – trains had previously been unloaded on this new ramp within the Birkenau camp.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, if that happened during the night, then a camp lockdown would definitely be announced.

Prosecutor Vogel:
Is that to be understood as follows: You yourself did not observe that trains to Birkenau had previously been driven into it, but you cannot rule out with certainty that [unintelligible]

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Something could happen at night that I didn’t observe during the day. And at night I would just be getting the Block lock order – that was often, but for different reasons. But I can’t remember that during my time there was a transport on the railroad tracks between the two camps. I can’t remember, I can’t rule it out.

Prosecutor Vogel:
Yes. Thank you very much. I have no other questions.

Presiding Judge:
Mr. Attorney Ormond.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Witness, you said earlier that it was your intention from the outset to take the first opportunity to escape.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Did you make a conscious note of these death tolls so that you could share them with the world after you fled? Or did that happen on the side?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, after all these years, it’s hard to tell where the line between those two possibilities exists. Of course, as long as I was in Auschwitz, I kept my eyes open. And it was clear to me that real help can only come from outside there. And I have observed this systematically with a view to perhaps being able to get this information out of the camp.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Witness, I assume you would have needed a few days to prepare your escape. Were the figures you made up to the last moment, up to April 7th, or did you stop in February or March?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No, I definitely didn’t stop in February. Because in March 1944 was the liquidation of the family camp. And I dealt thoroughly with this liquidation of the family camp in my report. It was an extraordinary thing that children in Auschwitz were in the camp for six months. They were kept indoors and then suddenly murdered in one night. And since I knew about the children and also knew other people in the camp well, that made a deeper impression on me left behind, than anything I’ve seen. So I know that I wrote about it at least as far back as the Czech transport. I also know that between the Czech transport and my escape, i.e. between the murder of the family camp on March 7, 44 – I remember the date because that was the birthday of President Masaryk – and April 7th, the day I fled, This month transports were sent to Auschwitz. And I’m sure of it: they were Greek transports between those dates.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
So that means it’s likely that I kept the records up to the last moment.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Mr. witness, when you came to Slovakia, where was the place where you first found refuge?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I first found refuge in the house of a Slovak farmer. I crossed the border between Poland and Slovakia on April 21st. That was on Friday. And there I met a farmer across the border whose name was Čanecky. Andrzej Čanecky from Skalite. And he immediately offered me sanctuary and I trusted him.

Co-counsel Ormond:
And where did you meet your Jewish friends in Slovakia?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I made contact with the Jewish community in Žilina in the following way: Čanecky took me to the town of Čadca disguised as a peasant. And in the city of Čadca I went to see a doctor who was Doctor Pollack, whom I knew personally. And he had immediately alerted the Jewish community in Bratislava and a meeting with the leaders of this community in Žilina was arranged. Žilina is also a city in Slovakia. And I met them in Žilina, I think Monday or Tuesday. That means on Friday April 21st I came to Slovakia, and on Monday or Tuesday, that must have been April 24th or 25th, that I met these people.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. Well, I think Mr. Attorney

Counsel Ormond [interrupts]:
And what was – yes, something else is coming, forgive me, Mr. Chairman. And what was the reaction of your friends there when you recounted the things you experienced in Auschwitz?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yeah, of course that sort of thing seemed pretty incredible at the time, about gas chambers and the gassing of children. People had grown up in a civilized world. That was at first unbelievable. But here was another thing: they had exact records of who from Slovakia was transported when and to where. And I could name maybe 60 of those names that arrived by special transport when I was inside. And I would not know those names if I wasn’t there, which I was. Secondly, they separated Wetzler and me. And then I said to Wetzler straight away: ‘Whatever cross-examination is here, answer’ and ‘We must answer independently from each other.’ And we were always cross-examined by about six people. Some of them were professional lawyers. And that took a whole day. And then the transcripts were put together and the results of the cross-examination dated. They compared our testimony and what was true was incorporated into the record.

Co-counsel Ormond:
And then you were brought together with the papal nuncio⁸?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.
[⁸ The papal nuncio at the time was Angelo Rotta, but it has subsequently been determined that Vrba & Mordowicz spoke with a Papal representative named Msgr. Mario Martilotti instead. See The Auschwitz Protocols: Ceslav Mordowicz and the Race to Save Hungary’s Jews (Post Hill Press 2022] by Fred R. Bleakley — footnote correction by Alan Twigg, 2023.]

Co-counsel Ormond:
In a monastery, or where?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
That was in a monastery in Svatý Jůr.

Co-counsel Ormond:
And the nuncio also interrogated you?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, the nuncio had in the meantime already had read a copy of the protocol and he already had questions prepared. And he already had certain information. That was clear to me when he had spoken. And there was cross-examination again, which lasted about six hours. And then the nuncio said, he was fully satisfied with what was contained in these minutes, that it corresponds to the truth. And he gave me his word of honor that he would send this report to the Vatican immediately and would pass it on to the western powers.

Co-counsel Ormond:
And then what happened?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, what happened then I only knew indirectly, after the war. I know the British government and the American government had taken steps.

Presiding Judge:
Yes, but the witness doesn’t know that from his own experience.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. But I know that [unintelligible]

Co-counsel Ormond:
I would like to ask something, Mr. Chairman: Is it correct that you give your numbers and your statements that found later in the report handed over by (Angelo) Rotta to Horthy?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, I don’t know what Rotta handed over to Horthy. Rotta passed something to Horthy, but what he handed over to Horthy, I don’t know.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Then another question, Mr. witness

Witness Rudolf Vrba [interrupts]:
May I answer the question indirectly?

Co-counsel Ormond:
Please.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I’ve heard it second-hand, that is, from the work of certain historians that Rotta handed over these protocols to Horthy. Whether that’s true or not, I don’t have the power to judge.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Was your report the basis for the so-called Weissmandel report?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, I spoke to Weissmandel personally.

Co-counsel Ormond:
That was the Slovak rabbi?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

Co-counsel Ormond:
This report of yours was then circulated in a number of copies?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed. That was caused by Weissmandel.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Aha. Now another question, Mr. witness. Do you know or remember certain SS doctors and SS leaders? You met there in Auschwitz?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I saw many SS doctors in Auschwitz and many SS leaders in Auschwitz.

Presiding Judge:
Yes, the question has already been answered, Mr. Attorney.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Forgive me.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
But from photographs it is very difficult to identify someone. May I make a comment

Presiding Judge:
Yes please.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
When I was at the preliminary examination with the district court judge Doctor Düx, I spent two days talking about Fries. That’s what upset me, that Fries, whom I knew well in Auschwitz, Oberscharführer Fries, was dismissed. And after the two days the Judge gave me 80 photographs. And I didn’t recognize anyone at all. And there was a photograph of Fries, and I didn’t recognize him, from two photographs. Only at the third did I say, I don’t know who it is but I know the man. So it’s very difficult.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Witness, one last question. We had a witness here, Doctor Uhlenbroock. In your Book⁹ you speak of Doctor Uhlenbroock.
[⁹ Rudolf Vrba, Alan Bestic: I cannot forgive. Translated from the English by Werner von Grünau. Munich: Rütten and Loening Verlag, 1964.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Co-counsel Ormond:
What do you personally know about him?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, I have not seen the man. I know that Fries did the sorting in Auschwitz, and I know that Doctor Uhlenbroock was a medical specialist in Auschwitz. I didn’t know at the time who the specialist behind Fries was. I only got that after the war.

Co-counsel Ormond:
So you didn’t know at the time that this one radical action¹⁰, through which one Block in the gas chamber came, was due to Doctor Uhlenbroock, as I gather from your book?

[¹⁰ On August 29, 1942, 746 prisoners were selected from the prisoner infirmary and sent to the gas chambers to be killed. See Czech, Kalendarium, p. 290.]

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, at that time I knew many names of the doctors. Who were personally more or less responsible, I could judge that only after the war.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Thanks, I have no further questions.

Presiding Judge:
On the defence side? No questions? Attorney Doctor Eggert.

Defender Eggert:
Mr. witness, a question about the locations of this old ramp, which you knew very well.
It was probably out in the open. Were there houses, buildings, sheds, shacks or anything like that nearby?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
At the old ramp? In the period between 1942-43, in the immediate vicinity of the ramp, as far as I can tell, I remember nothing at all. But that is of course the question of what you mean by the immediate vicinity. How many meters?

Defender Eggert:
I don’t want to give a number, but for example, was there a hut where an observer could have been where he could hide and see what was going on there?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Between the ramp and the interior, i.e. the small chain of posts in Birkenau, was a row of wooden barracks. I don’t know what these wooden barracks were used for. But they were there. Yes from there you could have seen something.

Defender Eggert:
Was there a small toilet building there, right by the ramp?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Right at the ramp? Now that’s not clear to me, but it’s possible. Because I know we sometimes we were on the ramp for twelve hours, and there had to be a toilet. In some way this was taken care of. But I can’t remember this particular building clearly.

Defender Eggert:
Good. Thank you very much. Another question: do you know when the punishment company relocated from section BIb to BIId?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
As far as I can remember, but here again I can’t guarantee that, it would have been in June 43, maybe a little earlier. Anyway, on the punishment company I remember in BIb, in Block 1 or 2. And when we were transferred from the camp to BII, the punishment company couldn’t stay there, because that’s where women came into the camp. So it should somehow have been in the summer of 43. I can’t tell you the exact time.11

Defender Eggert:
I’m asking you this because you mentioned the accused Bednarek both in connection with the aforementioned punishment company in BIb as well as in BIId. Are you sure he was in BIb?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No, I couldn’t say that with any certainty.

[¹¹  In July 1943 the male prisoners were transferred from BIb to BIId. See Czech, Kalendarium, p.543.]

Defender Eggert:
Good thank you. And then one more question. You said to the accused Bednarek: ‘He had the function of the Block elder in the punishment company. Survival time was shortest there.” And you have detailed in connection with this survival time issue how the punishment commando went to work with this wagon and in the evening it returned full of corpses. Do you know if the Block senior of the punishment commando went to work with them?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Sometimes yes sometimes no. But in general the Block elders didn’t go to work.

Defender Eggert:
Thank you very much.

Presiding Judge:
Is there no more question to be asked by the defense? Mr. Prosecutor.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
Mr. President, I would like to show the witness this map again. Maybe he can then show us where the Old Ramp was.

Presiding Judge:
Please.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, please, may I close this? Excuse me, I want my glasses add to that, because I’m far-sighted. […]

Prosecutor Kuegler:
Here is the main camp, and here is Birkenau as it should be in the future. It’s only up to here that it was built. And here is the Auschwitz train station.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
If it is possible for you to orientate yourself there.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. There was a short distance between Auschwitz main camp and Birkenau. That was a narrow path. This narrow path was on this side of the train station, so the train station was that direction.

Prosecutor Kügler [interrupts]:
Here is the train station.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Exactly, here is the train, and here is the railway line. Well, that railroad line had worked during the whole time I was in Auschwitz, with private trains. I often drive the S-Waggon here. See between Birkenau and Auschwitz, the train car. Well, from Auschwitz to Birkenau was a path for the prisoners, and I think that’s listed here.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
This way, yes?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
This way.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
In any case, it leads directly to the entrance gate.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
It leads directly to the entrance gate. This path has intersected this railway. And the ramp was there where this path overlapped the railway. That means here was the normal track, and then there was a blind track. The blind track came from about here and led here. Here was the head Ramp, this is where the ramp is located. So, the ramp is located opposite this A camp.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
A camp.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
And that between the railway line and the A camp?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
That’s right.

Presiding Judge:
Mr Kügler, wouldn’t it be interesting if the court could also take note of this?

Prosecutor Kuegler:
We want to try that.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
There you go, it was like this: From Auschwitz to Birkenau it was a short walk, it was a footpath, that was a street on which the cars could circulate. So it was a camp road. This camp road crossed over the main railway line. This railway line was functioning and I have seen train cars drive by every day. So that was a normal personal line. The outer Post chain from Auschwitz ended at this line, and Birkenau’s outer post chain also ended at this line. And so the ramp was between these two chains of posts, in one space between this main line and this outer chain of posts. And so that it was neighbouring. So here was the way to Birkenau. And the cars are usually from Auschwitz or came from Birkenau, the trucks, and they were parked here. Here was the ramp. And so that was it. So here’s the ramp, and I know the ramp was across from this old camp.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
And the train station is here, isn’t it?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
The train station was pretty remote, yes.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
And this is camp BIa? […]

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
This is camp BIa. Camp BIa could be seen from the ramp. And there were any wooden buildings from unknown destination, so that’s [unintelligible].

Presiding Judge:
And how many tracks were on that ramp?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
There was only one track on this ramp, as far as I can remember.

Presiding Judge:
A track.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
On the old ramp.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. I then ask that the witness show the picture again and ask him if there is a person he recognizes in this picture.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
[Pause] Well, the SS men here are all with their backs turned, with one exception. This man there, that one SS man with his face turned to me.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I couldn’t say the name, but I think I saw the man. If I saw him, that would be something else. In the picture – I figured it out, I can from pictures identify no one, but if I see someone face to face, I might be able to.

Presiding Judge:
I will then ask the accused to step forward.

Presiding Judge:
You said there was a very well known man in Auschwitz.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
That was Boger.

Presiding Judge:
That was Boger.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Presiding Judge:
“The second,” you said, “I saw him on the ramp in an officer’s uniform.” ¹²

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed.

[¹² The witness Vrba recognized the accused Mulka. See minutes of the main hearing of November 30, 1964, 4 Ks 2/63, main files, vol. 104, sheet 969.]

Presiding Judge:
Otherwise, you don’t know anything about him?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. I remembered the man very well. Because he was often on the ramp. He stood there in an officer’s coat with a white fur. And on one occasion stepped forward, as a prisoner was beaten by two Unterscharfuhrers, one Unterscharfuhrer said something like this: “That swine wanted to talk to the arrivals there.” And he said: “Get him ready, it’s late!’ That was all.

Presiding Judge:
“Get him ready, it’s late”?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Presiding Judge:
Do you know whether this man also carried out selections?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
There you go, I can’t say that, because he was in the group where the selection was made. But when the selection was made, I was with the wagons. I could go there when the selection was over and I’d take people to the cars, dragged the dead and the dying.

Presiding Judge:
And you didn’t recognize the man you saw in the picture here?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No.

Presiding Judge:
Yes, I wouldn’t have any more questions then. Prosecutor, please.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
Mr. Chairman, in the supplementary charge¹³ against the gentleman whom the witness described as an officer, with white fur, there is a picture that was presented to the witness Rybka. I would like to suggest showing the witness this picture and then the other pictures with the request he may explain whether he recognizes anyone in this picture.
[¹³ Cf. Supplementary indictment by the public prosecutor’s office dated July 23, 1964, Annex 2 to the minutes of Main hearing of July 23, 1964, 4 Ks 2/63, main files, vol. 100.]

Defender Gerhardt:
Mr. President, in the meantime I may have a question for the witness.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Defender Gerhardt:
Witness, you said that in the picture on the right – the person looked familiar to you. Had I understood you?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
Mr. Chairman, I would like to object to further questioning until this matter is settled.

Defender Gerhardt:
Of course.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
I want the witness to focus on that now.

Presiding Judge:
Oh well. We can wait a moment. [Pause] Would you look, Mr. Witness, as to whether you are able to recognize someone in these pictures?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
[pause] I would recognize him as the same.

Presiding Judge:
As the same?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
But without glasses, and that’s how it was.

Presiding Judge:
And so it was him?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, without glasses, on the ramp I didn’t see him with glasses. [pause] These two pictures are different. It’s more in their posture that I recognize SS men. That is a important characteristic.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
It comes to that, but of course

Presiding Judge [interrupts]:
One picture corresponds to the other, doesn’t it? That picture corresponds to the other portrait there, doesn’t it?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
In this picture I would like to say I recognize the man as the officer from the ramp.

Presiding Judge:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I couldn’t tell for sure from this picture.

Presiding Judge:
Don’t say for sure.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Definitely not in this picture where he’s wearing eyeglasses. As far as I remember the officer from the Ramp, he wasn’t standing there in glasses.

Presiding Judge:
Yes. Attorney Gerhardt, you had one more question, please.

Defender Gerhardt:
Witness, my question now: Could this person in this picture, whom you believe to have recognized, possibly be identical to Herr Baretzki, as you remember him from Auschwitz?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Which picture, please?

Presiding Judge:
You know, from the ramp, where you said: “The man facing me, he looks familiar, but I don’t know who it is.”

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I do not wish to comment on this question because I cannot identify him.

Presiding Judge:
You can’t him…

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
It’s one of those faces that didn’t mean too much to me. I have more, Baretzki, known by Fred Wetzler. Wetzler always told me, Baretzki here, Baretzki this or that. And I was less in contact with him. So I would know him at that time, but not recognize him today, since there was no incident that occurred between Baretzki and me.

Presiding Judge [interrupts]:
has occurred.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
If there was an incident, then it would be different.

Presiding Judge:
Then it would be different?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Presiding Judge:
Any other question? Baretzki himself.

Accused Baretzki:
Witness, when you were in the A camp, yes, may I tell you the name of his Block leader? And all you can say is whether that’s true or not. The Rapportfuhrer was Kurpanik.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, I remember that one.

Accused Baretzki:
That was the little Unterscharfuhrer.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No, I remember Kurpanik was a well-built guy.

Accused Baretzki:
Yes, but smaller than me. Smaller than me. And then the squad leader was Dargelis.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I wouldn’t say the Kurpanik was smaller than you. Incidentally, people have..

Defendant Baretzki [interrupts]:
That can be, yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
If they were people, with boots and those tall hats, then everyone is looked like a superman, so to speak. I wouldn’t say he was shorter than you.

Accused Baretzki:
Yes, I thought he was smaller, it doesn’t matter. That was Rapportfuhrer Kurpanik, wasn’t it? And now the Block Leaders come: Dargelis, did you know him, the squad leader Dargelis?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Rottenfuhrer Dargelis?

Accused Baretzki:
Yes.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, the name sounds familiar to me, but I wouldn’t talk about it that way for sure.

Accused Baretzki:
And Weiss, does that mean anything to you?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. The name tells me something, yes.

Accused Baretzki:
Does the name Meier mean anything to you?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
The name Weiss tells me something, he showed up as a Block leader in the quarantine camp. I believe that, Yes.

Accused Baretzki:
Meier, also what?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Meier? There were so many Meiers there. I don’t know. Doesn’t sound in my memory at the moment.

Accused Baretzki:
Yes, as you said Buntrock, he was in the A camp for a while, after that he was transferred to the B camp.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Look, I’m telling you, I remember Buntrock because Buntrock once seized me and slapped me twice in the face.

Defendant Baretzki [interrupts]:
That was such a hard one. That was such a heavy colossus, right.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
No.

Accused Baretzki:
He was later Report Leader in the B camp.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I cannot remember.

Presiding Judge:
Mr. Prosecutor.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
Herr Doktor Vrba, can you describe the fur that this man – you spoke of a white fur – Can you describe it in a little more detail? Was that only a white fur at the top and otherwise a dark coloured fur coat or…

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
It was a green SS uniform officer’s coat with a white fur trim.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
Fur trim on top?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
Yes. And the rank? I don’t know if you’ve got that far…

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Officer.

Prosecutor Kuegler:
Officer, yes, the rank.

Co-counsel Ormond:
A question, Mr. Chairman. Did I understand you correctly stated earlier that you repeatedly saw this officer on the ramp?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes indeed. That’s why I can remember him well.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Did he put himself into service there, did he monitor?

Presiding Judge:
He has answered. He does not know.

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
I was just saying that he turned himself in when they brought in an inmate who had been accused of speaking to the new arrivals. So there the two SS men who wanted to make a case of that, don’t you, the Unterscharführer. And they drove him up there to the Officer group roughly with the words: “This pig over there has had contact with the arrivals. Done.” They wanted to blow this up as a case for a moment. And this individual in officer’s uniform has just said: “Get him ready, it’s late!” It was late, it was late after midnight, they wanted him to go away. Well, they screwed him up, and I remember that case very well.

Co-counsel Ormond:
Thank you very much.

Presiding Judge:
Yes, and how? What happened to the man?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes, they already brought him in with clubs. And after that brief verdict was made, there they beat him with clubs until he collapsed. And then they hammered him with clubs for a long time until no more sound came out. And that meant in Auschwitz “to finish someone off”. And then we took the body to Birkenau, as the command marched off.

Presiding Judge:
With you?

Witness Rudolf Vrba:
Yes. Of course, that was pretty common in “Kanada,” in the clean-up squad.

Presiding Judge:
Then there are no more questions, no more explanations to be given